Green Clean Schools | Ask Steve About Green Cleaning

Q: Hi Steve, I’ve been told that it is important to use the same brand or same line of products when choosing daily floor cleaning products and floor strippers to avoid chemicals interacting improperly. Is this true?

Q: Early care and education programs in CT are required to regularly disinfect children's toys and classroom surfaces (diaper changing tables, tables, countertops, etc) with a bleach and water spray solution and then allow these to air dry. Might we be generating health problems in very young children (birth to 6 years) as a result of these practices? If so, what product(s) and practices would you recommend to caregivers of very young children to use in group care and/or at home?

Q: I have to use the Environmental Rating Scales (ECERS) as an assessment tool for Early Childhood programs. The scales, which are nationally used, ask teachers to use bleach and water solution as a disinfectant. What is the alternative?

Q: My school district is considering cutting custodial staff along with other district programs and staff in order to deal with a budget reduction in the coming year. Do you know of any studies or data available that I could use that shows the impact of custodial staffing levels on student achievement and student health?

Q: I am concerned about all the Styrofoam breakfast and lunch trays that are being dumped into our landfills. Is there a "greener" version of the school Styrofoam lunch tray that is available for schools to purchase? I want to encourage my school district to think green!! Would love to hear your reply.

Q: How do you select a green disinfectant when they're aren't any certifications?

Q: Are there certain certifications (Green Seal, DFE, etc.) that are required by schools to verify that chemicals are in fact "green," or environmentally friendlier that traditional cleaning chemicals?

Q: Custodians will not use a backpack that has less than 150 CFM, like the mega. The rest will just end up in the back of the cleaning closet. They don't pick up quarter-inch rocks, pieces of pencil, etc., when the bags are one-quarter full. Most small-frame janitors cannot carry a backpack daily with a half-full 10-quart capacity bag. I use them and love them, but some schools don't allow custodian evaluation of equipment.

Q: We have odor problems in our restroom, and I know from this previous blog post that the urinal deodorizing cakes are not a good choice. What do you recommend instead?

Q: At our school the custodians disinfect the desks everyday with bleach. Is bleach OK to use as a disinfectant? Do they really need to disinfect the desks daily?

Q: Will switching to green cleaning products require more time to get things clean and/or cleaning more frequently?

A: This is a very good question which frankly does not have a simple answer. In the “old” days, I think it was very important to make sure there was compatibility among floor care products, but I think it is less of an issue today as technologies have improved significantly since the first polymer-based finishes were introduced in the late 1950’s. Today I think the compatibility of the products to be concerned about is not between the floor finish and floor stripper, but rather between the floor finish and the floor maintainer, assuming a maintainer is used. (A maintainer is often a cleaner combined with some polymer and solvent to help “maintain” the floor finish between cleaning and stripping the floor completely, but they are used less and less frequently today.)

But the reason that this is such a difficult question is that floor finishes, unlike cleaning products, really need to be tested to determine appropriateness for the facility. For example, it is important to consider the level of foot traffic, amounts and types of soils (such as clays versus sandy or gritty soils), the appearance/gloss requirements, the type and frequency of maintenance, durability requirements, type of equipment being used for maintenance, etc. These all impact the type of floor finish that would work best for a facility.

As a result, the issue really can’t be simplified to using a single manufacturer’s combination of products, but should really focus on selecting the best floor finish that meets all of the requirements/conditions stated above. Thus I would recommend that purchasing agents “pre-qualify” the products to make sure the floor finish works within the maintenance system and meets the facility appearance and other performance requirements (i.e. durability, gloss, won’t black heel mark, slip resistance, etc.).

I believe the best way to do this is a two step procurement strategy that actually includes testing products and determining the manufacturer’s/distributor’s ability to train custodial personnel.

Once the procurement agents develop a short list of products that meet the facility’s needs, then the purchasing agent can buy the most cost effective product from the approved list. And once the floor finish is in place, selecting stripping chemicals, cleaners, etc., becomes relatively easy because they can be tested with the specific floor finish.

Hope this helps,
Steve

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Q: Hi Steve, In your Q&A, you asked about time required per square feet of cleaning. We are 100 percent contract cleaning (6,500,000 square feet), and we require 3,000 square feet of cleaning per hour per custodian, which translates to 50 square feet per minute, which in turn translates to 8 1/3 seconds per square foot. Of course that doesn't mean that's what we get, but that's what's in the contract. I can see that's right in line with your other numbers of 23,408 square feet of area cleaned on average for a full shift in the survey. Hope that helped, thanks for helping me with your info.

A. Thanks for your comments and for the information about how you handle this issue. As I mentioned in the question you’re referring to, we’re always interested in finding out how people in different situations go about the work of making our schools clean, safe places for children, teachers and school staff. I’d love to hear from other readers about the time you allocate for cleaning different areas.

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Q: Hi Steve, I’ve been in the Jan/San industry for over 20 years, in the Ocala, Florida area. I have seen a lot of cleaning products as a major contributor to indoor air quality issues in closed environments. Many of the cleaning products contain high levels of volatile organic compounds(VOCs) which can give rise to respiratory irritation, headaches and other symptoms in workers and building occupants. The one ingredient found in most floor strippers, all-purpose cleaners, glass cleaners and degreasers is Butyl (chemical abstract services ID# 111-76-2). This is some nasty stuff but it works quickly and effectively. This product ingredient needs to be eliminated out of all cleaning products – without it, we would all be healthier, and the environment would be better off.

Tom Potts, Ocala, Florida

A: Thank you for raising this issue. Unfortunately there are many conventional cleaning products that contain ingredients such as ammonia, alcohols, strong fragrances, etc. that can definitely contribute to indoor air quality and other problems and we now know that we can replace these products with newer, greener technologies that clean just as well and are cost competitive compared to conventional products.

As to your specific comment, we recognize that “butyl-based” cleaners containing 2-butoxyethanol (CAS #11-76-2) is a common ingredient in many conventional cleaning products and unnecessarily places workers at risk because it is known to be a reproductive toxicant and is readily absorbed through the skin. This is exactly the reason we recommend that schools use third party certifying agencies like Green Seal and Environmental Choice to make it easier to purchase products that reduce the risk to kids and staff members. Under both the Green Seal and Environmental Choice certification programs, 2-butoxyethanol is not allowed as an ingredient, along with a number of other environmental and human health criteria. The Green Seal standard for cleaning products GS-37 is in the process of being revised and anyone can provide input during the revision process. See www.greenseal.org. Information on Environmental Choice can be found at www.EnvironmentalChoice.com.

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A: Thanks for the questions. Unfortunately, I am not specifically familiar with the ECERS assessment tool which you mention. If the tool "requires" the use of bleach then you may have to continue using it and continue your "greening" efforts with other cleaning chemicals, equipment, paper, etc.

If, on the other hand, the use of bleach is just a “recommendation” (but not a “requirement”), then you can consider alternatives. So check this out first with your regulatory agencies, including the local department of health if they also regulate the child care centers.

As you know, chlorine bleach has been an enormously effective product for killing harmful organisms for over 50 years. But it will also burn eyes and skin, is a respiratory irritant, is poisonous if accidentally ingested, will produce a poisonous gas if mixed with other commonly used cleaning products, and frankly is not a very good cleaner. And today there are many greener alternatives that will effectively kill or control harmful organisms and at the same time will reduce the potential to harm health and the environment.

Depending on what you are cleaning, sanitizing or disinfecting ---- you can use a detergent cleaner, a sanitizer based on hydrogen peroxide, or a disinfectant based on hydrogen peroxide or a quaternary ammonium compound. All of these could be preferable to chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) bleach.

In addition, look for a product that has a pH closer to neutral (7) than one at the extreme ends of the spectrum. Also look for ones that are lower in VOCs and fragrances, which can reduce the potential for respiratory irritation or asthma triggers. And please make sure that your Early Childhood programs are following the directions for dilutions and dwell time to ensure that the product is working properly.

Hope this helps,
Steve

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A. Thank you very much for bringing up this important issue. I wish we had more specific data, but we did find some research that includes studies of the issues you're discussing.

Healthy School Environments and Enhanced Educational Performance [pdf]
This study is much broader than cleaning, and also includes the affects of renovation and school design.

Green Schools Attributes for Health and Learning, National Research Council, 2007 [pdf]
This report clearly states that cleanliness is an attribute that supports student health and development, learning and productivity (pg.3). The report can be ordered from various sources online. Click here for a summary of the report [pdf].

American School and University's annual maintenance and cost study includes average operation and maintenance costs and the number of custodians needed based on square footage.

We also looked for an industry standard on how many hours are required per square foot to clean a commercial or school building. Cleaning service contractors will provide a price per square foot, but I could not find any specific data on how many hours are required per square foot of building space for schools. You may be able to research this based on the cost in your area and use the cost or staffing information to help your argument. If you find additional information, please forward it to us.

We wish you the best on this effort. If these reductions are made, I would encourage you to document student and staff absenteeism before and after the budget cuts were made. This type of data may help you in the next budget cycle. Please keep us informed.

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Marla Graff-Mathis, Rochester, N.Y.

A. Thanks for your concern and for sharing your question. The short answer is that yes, there are definitely better alternatives to Styrofoam. Although this page is focused on green cleaning, we should do what we can to make things greener in all areas of operation -- and certainly food services is an area for improvement.

Reusing something is better than disposing of it, so reusable lunch trays that can be washed are a better alternative than trays that need to be thrown away. However, I recognize that some schools do not have the facilities available to wash trays and dishes. For these schools, disposable, biodegradable food service containers are now available that are made from corn, sugarcane and other renewable resources.

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Q: How do you select a green disinfectant when they're aren't any certifications?

A. Disinfectants can be a very valuable part of a green cleaning program in our effort to create healthier buildings. The trick is to use them only where necessary to prevent overuse and to select the "greenest" product for the job.

Unlike some of the other categories of products where there is a certification program (i.e. Green Seal) that makes selection easier, there are NO certification programs for specifically for disinfectants. Thus, you'll need to apply the definition of "green" to help you make a "greener" selection.

Green is defined by Presidential Executive Order 13101 as a "product that reduces the impact on health and the environment compared to similar products." Thus, in lieu of a certification program you’ll need to compare attributes of the product itself. Those attributes includes:

- The active ingredient: Some, like chlorine or phenolic compounds, have greater health and environmental risks compared to quaternary ammonium compounds (quats) and hydrogen peroxide, which would be greener alternatives.

- pH: Some disinfectants have a pH at the extreme end of the spectrum (closer to 0 or 14), which typically makes them much more corrosive (causes burns) to eyes and skin. If this is the case with the current product, a greener alternative would be to select an alternative with a more neutral pH (closer to 7).

- Fragrance: Many disinfectants have extremely strong fragrances that can cause respiratory irritation and trigger asthmatic episodes. If this is the case with the current product, a greener alternative would be to select a product with less fragrance.

- VOCs: Some disinfectants include other ingredients such as solvents that can result in a high percentage of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) which, like fragrances, can cause respiratory irritation and trigger asthmatic episodes. In addition, VOCs contribute to environmental issues such as smog formation. If this is the case with the current product, a greener product would be one with no or low VOCs.

- Other ingredients: Some disinfectants use 2-butoxyethanol as a solvent -- which is absorbed through the skin and can cause a host of health problems, including reproductive problems and attacks major organs. If this is the case with the current product, a greener product would be one with no 2-butoxythanol (butyl-free).

I hope this gives you a sense of how we approach "green" disinfectants, as well as other product categories when we can't simply suggest that they look for certified products. And for the record, it is NOT the certification that makes it green. Certification simply means that somebody else already has gone through the above exercise, which means they have simplified the purchasing process.

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- Duncan Yull, Largo, Fla.

A. The key word in your question is "required." This is an issue that is specific to individual school districts, and you’ll have to check locally to see what your district requires.

Typically, schools use third-party certifications like Green Seal, Environmental Choice or EPA’s Design for the Environment Program to make it easy for them to purchase green cleaning chemicals because they are not chemist, industrial hygienists or toxicologists. So they leave the science to independent third-parties to do the background evaluations.

With more than 100 manufactures having released products that are "certified," it makes it a lot easier for the schools to specify the certification and then buy the product that is the most cost effective and that meets their needs.

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The Nilfisk will pick up almost anything, but schools let them go beyond motor replacement time and they're ineffective. I've used Sanitare Micron and American uprights, and if you put a black light on when the vacuum is cleaning a soiled carpet you will see the dust. You can feel sand hit your legs when vacuuming in the summer when wearing shorts. Then, if there's enough suction, the heads have to be open enough to let popcorn, etc., into the wand. But most attachments are designed for lightly soiled carpet.

I believe that some backpack designers have dropped the 150 CFM because of the noise polution to the user. When encountering small items that the vacuum won't pick up due to size, custodians do not like to stop and disconnect the hose from the wand to suck up the object or grab the paper out of the attachment. It's too time consuming -- especially on popcorn days!

Change has to be followed with success to avoid failure. Custodians are accustomed to the Neanderthal dust mop -- it pushes all objects and the dust pan picks up everything at once. The backpacks don't do that, and when the industry creates one that does the above for school use, you will find the dust mops in the dumpster and cleaner schools.

- Craig Strid, custodian, Rhinelander, WI

A: Thanks for your input! As we all know there is no "one-size-fits all" solution to cleaning schools. Backpacks definitely have their place, as do wide-area vacuums and microfiber flat mops.

Finding the right combination that protects occupant health, performs effectively, reduces environmental impacts and is time and cost efficient is always our challenge.

Keep us apprised of your efforts, innovations and solutions.

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Q: We have odor problems in our restroom, and I know from an earlier blog on this website that the urinal deodorizing cakes are not a good choice. What do you recommend instead?

A. I hope you'll forgive the length of my email, as unfortunately there is no simple answer to your question. To begin, I believe we can all agree that cleaning is preferable compared to using air fresheners to mask odors. But I'm sorry to say that I have experienced plenty of buildings -- especially restrooms -- that smell bad regardless of our best efforts to clean them.

Without getting into details, I have seen mold literally sealed beneath the base of toilets and behind urinals that require the fixtures to be removed from the floor or wall to remove the odor causing bacteria and mold. And we have all seen older restrooms where there are no vents or the vents aren't working, or where there are other plumbing problems, such as floor drains that result in odors coming from those sources.

Unfortunately, where I'm going with this is there may be times where a facility manager wants to use an air freshener. So while I prefer cleaning and not to use them, in those cases where the building needs to do something I recommend "preferable" alternatives. You'll also note my use of the word "preferable."

Candidly I cringe when we categorically all fragrance or air fresheners toxic. While some of the ingredients in the concentrate, as well as fragrances (as the end product) in their concentrated form, may in fact be toxic under the technical definition of what makes a product toxic, in many products -- like it or not -- all fragrances are NOT considered toxic. And please know that I am aware that there are people with extreme sensitivities, respiratory issues, etc., but I hope I'm not offending any of you, this still doesn't mean that all fragrances are toxic.

Now, back to my comment about preference. When I am in the situation where restrooms, despite our best cleaning efforts, still smell bad, and we have made every effort to educate the occupants, and the facility manager still wants an air freshener, we basically approach it the same way we do disinfectants. That is, we don't assume that all restrooms need them, and we identify only those that really do.

Next, we try to use an air freshener that is sprayed by the custodian or day porter when they are cleaning or policing the restroom. I think this is preferable compared to an automatic device that is always spraying fragrance into the restroom (whether it is needed or not).

As to selecting the fragrance itself, I have a preference for "natural" fragrances from a sustainability perspective (I say it this way because the medical issues are well above my area of expertise, and all fragrances are highly processed, so it is really difficult for me to really understand the health issues relating to them). And by "natural" fragrances, we tend to find more of these in the citrus varieties -- such as lemon and orange fragrances that actually come from the fruits.

Other fragrances, including the floral fragrances, are all synthetic, as the real stuff costs too much for use in commercial air fresheners. As for using essential oils themselves, while this may be appropriate for use in one's home, this really is not an option in most commercial applications due to cost.

One final thing we also try is to use a basket of potpourri, which are "natural,” smell good and can add a touch of class to a restroom. But of course this has limitations, as I would not put one in an elementary school restroom so the kids could play with it.

In summary, the process is:

1. Clean well.

2. Identify which restrooms have the problem --- is it universal or just one or two restrooms?

3. Identify the cause of the odor. If it is an occupant usage issue, determine if the problem persists at all times or only during specific times, such as after heavy usage associated with a coffee break or lunch. If it is a building-related problem, try to fix it. For example, if there is sewer gas coming from a dry floor drain, start a drain maintenance program to eliminate the problem and use a bacterial product recommended for this.

4. If the cause of the problem cannot be identified or solved, develop a strategy based on the information that has been collected regarding the location of the restroom, frequency of the problem, occupant usage patterns and cleaning schedules.

5. Select the greenest product appropriate to solve the problem (see my comments above) and use it only where and when necessary.

Hope this helps.

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Q: At our school the custodians disinfect the desks everyday with bleach. Is bleach OK to use as a disinfectant? Do they really need to disinfect the desks daily?

A: It is highly recommended that we maintain a clean and sanitary environment, especially for surfaces that children touch frequently. However, there is some controversy over whether disinfecting is required for school desks or if good cleaning is sufficient.

But I would encourage you to consider replacing the bleach solution with a "greener" alternative. While bleach can be extremely effective at killing harmful bacteria and other organisms, it's not a good cleaner. Bleach is corrosive to eyes and skin (will burn), a respiratory irritant and it can trigger asthma. It's poisonous if ingested and, when mixed with other commonly used cleaning products such as ammonia, it will produce a poisonous gas.

Consider using an EPA-registered disinfectant or sanitizer, or a detergent-based cleaner. Look for a product that has a pH close to neutral (7) as opposed to one that is at the extreme pH range (close to 0 or 14). This will reduce the potential for residue on the surface to cause skin irritation.

Also look for a product that is low in volatile organic compounds (VOCs), which are typically water-based detergents as opposed to those containing solvents and other ingredients ( i.e. a high amount of fragrance) that when inhaled can cause a variety of healthy problems.

As to the frequency of cleaning, suffice it to say that there is a direct correlation between the frequency of cleaning and a sanitary and safe environment (assuming, of course, that the cleaning is done in a systematic and well managed process). As my mother used to say, "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" -- so while I can't give you a specific number, I am of the opinion that the more frequent the cleaning the better.

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Q: Will switching to green cleaning products require more time to get things clean and/or cleaning more frequently?

A: If you had asked me this question five years ago I would have answered that because green cleaning products were still new and not well developed that you should anticipate taking more time and cleaning more frequently. But today, based on the advances in technology and more competition in the marketplace, this is generally no longer the case.

Today we think of green cleaning chemicals to be "neutral" in terms of time it takes to work and their cost. This means that they are comparable to traditional products. But as in all products, I would encourage you to do your homework. Just as you can purchase traditional products that don't work very well, the same may be true of green ones. So don't be fooled because they are being marketed as green.

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